Asalamo Alaikom,

i got a question for all my knowledgeable brothers. how knowledgeable do you need to be to defend sunni aqida? or is it wajib and doesnt matter how much you know? what levels are there, if any?

how many of you would get jealous if someone less knowledgeable done the job instead of you?

just some questions coming to my mind recently...

Quite interesting questions coming in your mind brother

We definately need to know our sunni aqeedah,no question about that,and if anyone doesnt,then that should be his priority.As for defending the sunni aqeedah in my view is important if we are knowledgable about it,we definately need references too in order to defend.So i would leave that to the sunni scholars who have the deen with referenes from quran and sunnah on their fingertips.I dont think its a job of general sunni public.

I would certainly be never jealous by my any sunni brother but if he did the job, then he is definately knowledgable

I agree with abu Hasan from sunniport on this:

A student of Imâm Râzi questioned an illiterate peasant: 'what is your faith?'

He replied 'I am a sunni muslim'.

The student asked, 'do you have any doubts about this creed?'

The man replied:'I seek Allâh's refuge. I am convinced that the creed of ahlus sunnah is true; I am sure of it as I believe that the sun is present in the afternoon'

The student broke into tears and wept so much that his shirt was soaked and said: 'I am still unsure as to which is the most correct creed.'

Therefore it is said that the initiates, but even the masters shouldn't read the books of the heretics. It is not permitted to look into them unless there is a need (like refuting them). After all we are human; who knows, something (from the heretic's belief) might settle in the heart – we seek Allâh's refuge – and may go astray and fall into perdition.

Imâm Hârith al-muHâsibi wrote a book refuting the heretics. And that was the first book refuting heresy. Imâm Ahmed (ibn Hanbal) stopped talking to him. Imâm Hârith said, 'Did I do anything wrong? After all I have refuted the heresies'

Imâm Ahmed replied: 'Is it not possible that the heresies you have copied in your book to refute may take root in the hearts of Muslims, and make them go astray?'

In the olden days many heresies were put down by the power of the sword. In these days we can do nothing but refute. In fact it is obligatory (farD) to refute the heretics. It is in the Hadîth: 'when mischief and heresy is widespread, and the scholar doesn't refute them (demonstrate his learning), then Allâh's damnation is upon him and the curse of the angels and men. Allâh will neither accept his obligatory nor superoragatory worship'.

A heretic met Imâm Sa`yeed ibn Jubayr raDiyAllâhu `anhu on the road. He said 'Sir, I want to ask you something'. The Imâm said, 'I don't want to listen anything'. The heretic said, 'But sir, please listen to just one word', the Imâm gestured placing his thumb on his little finger and said, 'I won't listen to HALF a word'.

When asked about it, he replied: 'He wanted to simply argue'.

Come to think of it. The superiors (akâbir), the most knowledgeable amongst them are so careful and wary of such matters. Whereas these days we observe the ignorant folk arguing with the arya samajis and wahabis. They don't seem to be concerned nor afraid of anything! (Only) that person who is a master of sciences, he who knows the pitfalls the nuances of argument, and he who has all the force and he who has all the weaponry with him should venture into refuting the heretics. Even then, where is the need for such a man should go in a forest full of jackals?

Yes, when there is a pressing need, he (such a scholar) is compelled. He should do tawakkul on Allâh and use his weapons.

[Akâbir ki to yeh Hâlat, aur ab ye Hâlat hai ke jâhil se jâhil chuTa paRta hai âryoN se, wahâbiyoN se aur kuch khawf nahiN karta. Jo tamâm funûn ka mâhir ho, tamâm pech jânta ho, poori Tâqat rakhta ho, tamâm hathiyar paas hoN, usko bhi kya zarûr ke khwah makhwâh bheDiyoN ke jungal meiN jaay? HaaN agar zarûrat aa paRey to majbûri hai, Allâh par tawakkul karke un hathiyâroN se kaam le]


al-MalfuDH, Imâm Ahmed RiDâ, Part 4

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to paraphrase the Imâm raHimahullâh:

"Our elders were wary of argument and refutation. But these days everyone seems to find it easy and plunges in it, without a second thought.

Only such a man who has the mastery of sciences should venture into refuting the heretics. (he who has copious knowledge of fiqh, Hadîth, kalâm, logic, etc.) Not only that, he should also be adept at debate and distinguishing the weak argument from a sound one. He should have all the tools (his books and those of the heretics) with him. Even such a person shouldn't unnecessarily risk entering a debate unless there is a real need to. In such a case, it is a compulsion for him to refute."

(Only) that person who is a master of sciences, he who knows the pitfalls the nuances of argument, and he who has all the force and he who has all the weaponry with him should venture into refuting the heretics. Even then, where is the need for such a man should go in a forest full of jackals?

this is about debating one to one in a munazara, one needs to be a master of the sciences. it is not about generally defending the sunnah from what is basic knowledge or what you know you are able to defend.

alahazrat never taught us to sit around. he told us to do the best we can, but leaves actual munazaras to the masters.

on the internet, we have too many self proclaimed masters already. you are the same one who posts wahabi sites claiming they have rare books!!

subhanallah just sit there even if you know something and not say anything. amazing.

what about changing you see something wrong with your hand?

or is this what we do now, claim "I" have the right but no one else does? brother anyone can defend the sunnah, but only the ulema can debate in munazaras. you can hardly call the internet a debate arena.

you have badly interpolated that, very badly!

For the record, I was quoting abu Hasan from Sunniport. I agree with him on this.

i donno much but dat abu hasan guy (i thought was ment to be abul hasan anyway) he disrepectd

taj us sharia and other big ulemas all dat time thinks his molvi kingpin - he thinks his molvi shaft

hu s da molvi deliver fatwas 10 outta 10 - SHAFT
hu s da molvi who wont cop out - SHAFT

molvi might take u down bt never let u down

kids shud learn to no ther place - i mean bro dis is da net! yu aint no molvi here! u shud respect ya elders man

Salam

I would have that it is right of Allah upon us as muslims to defend the Sunnat. Although, I do agree with you brothers about organised debate, it should only be between qualified individuals.

It would be funny to find an internet forum with all scholars and no Imams in the Mosque. This medium is for us young people.

Scholars like GF Haddad are doing a good job writing articles.

jazak ALLAH

assalamu alaykum all,

Brother Owaisi, the following is an observation, if it offends you I apologise - you seem to be very polemical in your approach! - the quote given earlier which is attributed to abu hasan is actually originally found (in the most part) in a book/risala by imam muhasibi if I am not mistaken. A similar extract is written by ala hazrat, and also imam ghazzali. The intention i'm sure was just to give advice, regardless whether the focus was on actual debate or 'defence'.

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General

Many people who believe they are defending the sunnah unfortunately end up in debates and soon run out of steam - whats left is an ignorant deviant debating an ignorant good-willer (imam abu hanifahs and imam shafi's words come to mind).

Regardless of what anyone says regarding the views on debate, unfortunately we do not listen anyway.

We can only 'defend' the sunnah if we know it, I don't think anyone would disagree with that. That is because the sunnah does not need defending, it needs upholding!!! It is the sunnah that defends us

...if somebody believes they are sufficiently 'tooled' and find themselves in a corner, they should by all means use what they know but they should also need to know when to be quiet (its the latter part which is the problem).

Allah has informed us in the quran that it was He who sent down to us His rememberence and it is He who will protect it. The Prophet embodies the Quran, and it is because of his presence that we have not been destroyed and it through his sunnah that we seek closeness to our lord.

when the scholars say protection of the sunnah, it means the upholding of the sunnah.

if we want to uphold the sunnah (this includes me), the first thing to do is to guard our tongue and keep it on a leash when we release it on someone.

Allah says in the Quran: 'call to the way of your Lord with wisdom and appropriate warning and engage with them in a manner which is best (ahsan)'.

mockery and sarcasm are not ahsan.

your brother,

Ansar Baig wrote:


Scholars like GF Haddad are doing a good job writing articles.

jazak ALLAH

As-salâmu `alaykum

I personally just try to adhere to what the traditional recognised authorities have stated. Even the modern elders have differences between each other.

lâ hawla wa lâ quwwah.

Jazâkallâh khayr