I would like to ask you Raja, where did Hazrat Sultan Bahu (Ra) say Sayiduna Ali Radiyallaho Anho is afzal? The poem you mentioned, who told you that means he had the belief that Sayiduna Ali Radiyallaho Anho is afzal?

dear brother Hazrat Sultan Haq Bahu's gaddi nasheen Hazrat sultan Muhammad Ali sahab in his lecture told that the aqeeda of Hazrat Sultan Haq Bahu is that Maula is afzal and there r many Aullia who said that maula is afzal and their r sahabas as well who believe that maula is afzal one of them Hazrat Peer Syed Naseer ud Deen Naseer told that his shykh Hazrat Peer Mehar Ali shah Sahab has also this aqeeda and is written in malfoozaat e mehria. my dear their is believe that maula is afzal so u cant declare all of them as tafzeelis. and my Peer o murshad and his forefathers had also this aqeeda and the shaan of Hazrat Abu Bakar is that which can not be defined by us He is siddique e Akbar we love and respect Him very much
Naara e haidri
Yaaa Ali(A.S)

and Peer Abdul Qadir is not tafzili yes sanaqshi is the only muslim and except him all are tafzilis................... totally non sense. Mr. sanaqshi can u tell me that Hazrat Miqdaad is also a tafzili because he had the aqeeda that maula is afzal and their r many sahabi who believe that maula is afzal. r they all tafzili?(maazallah)

no one in the whole ummah is better than sahabi e Rasool(SAWW) so many sahabis had also aqeeda that maula is afzal so if a sahabi is afzal than its aqeeda is also afzal so please dont call any one tafzili and please check urself........

Salam bahi umer,

Bahi why are you dragging this topic? and please dont mention name of Pir e.g Abdul Qadri Jalini, by mentioning name if anything is said in return it may seem like an attack on the Schlors and we have no attention of attacking any PIR saab.

Also brother as you have mentioned that you are mureed of Abdul Qadri JAlini Saab, he live on TV said that Abu Bakar rda is AFZAAL and he belives in this JAMOOR (the issue here is Ijema)... but for the sake of it, if your PIR is saying that Abu BAkar rda is afzaal, then topic should end here, no point bring handful of schlors or sahabi comparing to 1000s other who believed in Afzaliaat of Abu Bakar rda.

Wasalam

dear brother my peer is not peer syed abdul qadir jillani and i had mentioned in my past posts about my peer Hazrat Ghous uz zaman Hazrat Peer Syed Muhammad Ameer Shah Qadri Gillani(R.A)

salam alykum shaykh raja sahib please please don't try humour because your not very good at it, I politely asked youna question which you have not replied to!

then you had the cheak to say all qadiri's believe that hadret sheri khuda radi allahu ta3ala anho was afdhal i name more then 10 qadiri shuyukhs of the past 100 years who all beleived the opposite, so before making such false debase comments you should go ask the buzurgh of your silsila what the aqeeda of your elders were because you might find it contradicts the current germs of rafzi=ism that has spread amongst some of our shuyukh unfortunatley. i quotes you a hadith from sunan dar qutni
and sawaa'3iqi maharqi p60 why don't you give a response to that hadith brother instead of going around the teepee's mud huts! hadret sheri khuda may allah santify his secrets states " bahee jissay pa'own gha ka mujhay abu bakr aur umer say afdhal kehta hayn isseee ilzaam tarashee kee sazaa kay towr pir assee kowray marown gha!" [who soever says i am superior then abu bakr or umer (may allah bless them both). The reward for such an accusation is that that person will recieve 80 lashes!

whats your response brother raja sahib please stick to proofs rather then your fanciful emotional rhetorics

SA Naqshi wrote:

brother what is there to refute? for your information i have sat in a number of Pir Abdul qadir shaha sahibs sohbets.

I don't need to refute anyone (who am i i am zero)

u have sat in a number of Pir Abdul qadir shaha sahibs sohbets, here Pir Abdul Qadir has been accused of being tafdhili and the zero that u r found nothing to refute and u r the same person who said:

The Eminent Islamic scholar, profound alim, khateeb and pillar and crown of the arifs of the most Distinguished Naqshabandi order, Hadret Mujjaddadi alfi thani, Shaykh ahmed al Farooq ar rabbani qadda salla sirru states,"When fitnas (instigations, mischiefs) and bidats appear and my Ashab are vilified, a person who knows the fact should let others know it, too. If he does not, may he be under the curse of Allahu ta'ala and angels and all mankind! Allahu ta'ala will not accept this scholar's worships, neither the fard (compulsory) ones nor the supererogatory ones" stimulated me into feeling discontented with these speeches”. Having fear that by not establishing or transmitting what I know to be the truth etc...... I fear I will become sinful and as a bad student I do not wish to heap more calamities upon my self. I seek refuge and forgiveness from my Lord.

i think i am something actually because i don't want to be called in front of my lord and have to explain why i didn't say anything or defend the truth (thats my sincere and honest opinion).

why have u failed to establish or transmit what u know to be the truth about Pir Abdul Qadir. why have u failed to tell the truth that Pir Abdul Qadir is not a tafdhili? why did you find nothing to refute? do u also take Pir Abdul Qadir as he has been accused? why have u failed to fear that u'll become sinful and as a bad student u do not wish to heap more calamities upon ur pitiful self?

it's very easy to quote words of great scholars but when time comes to act on it people quickly forget n prefer to stay quiet in fear of not getting opposed by others. u have sat in a number of Pir Abdul Qadir Shah Sahibs sohbets and here u fear to defend him, u fear to say that he's not a tafdhili.

slaam alaykum

I have read you comments brother Musa, i have read your comments regarding one of our great master Shaykh Quyumi waqt Mujjadaddani deeno millat Alfithani kay sarkar, you are suggesting i have not defended shaykh abdul qadir shah damanbarkum aliyyah from the accusation of being tafdhili, first of all it is not my job to defend him he is alim sayyed and is well versed in science of islmic aqeeda, judisprudence and tassawuf to be able to do that himself. With regards to this my job is to transmit the truth if i know it, but heres the problem, In private I have it on sound authority with isnad that Hadret Abdul qadir shah sahib has said that hadret Shayn shahi sadaaqat radi allahu ta3ala anho is afdhal, he went as far as saying father in laws are one place and son in law another and the farther in law holds higher fadhila, OK! there is also a video available where hadret sahib is stated that he believes hadret sadeeqi akber raddi allahu ta3ala anho is afdhal and then in the same speach spent about 30 stating hadret ali is afdhal according to some sahab some ulema etc (video available on youtube). On top of this he is surrounded by some people (Alims and khleefay) who are clear tafdhili and even rafdhi shiah, there is copious amounts of videos availabe some are available on this forum to view where they slander the sahaba and make reference to hadret ali sheri huda karamallahu ta3ala wajhahul kareem being afdhal. hadret Shah sahib has been present there yet said nothing to refute their false claims, may he refuted them in private (Allah knows best). If in private somethign is said that is different from whats said in public what are you going to do brother musa? a fatawa is not given on something which is muzahira (3rd party information) it must be given on what is clear and apparant.

Further more in my last few post i was refuting brothe shaykh raja sahib he is clearly holding the wrong end of the stick when he states that all qadiri's believe that hadret ali is afdhal,. this is am affraid is such a debase comment which he made here in this same thread which i am challanging without pinting any finbges to any shaykh. I quoted 14 Qadiri suyukh who are well prefound and learned and who are regarded as wali allah yet raja bhai has not answered my question, so i throw that question again name 5 ulema present day ulema from india and 5 from pakistan and i will show you the significance of this question.

But going back to your finger pointing brother Musa, I did not want to point fingers at anyone, so i have given in my opinion a suitable answer to brother Shaykh raja bhais debase accusation regarding the whole of tariqatun qadiri the hadith from Sunan dar qutni that "who makes the acusation that hadret ali raddi allahu ta3la anho is afdhal he will recieve 80 lashes of the whip"! so if some brothers find this quote hard to swollow


fi amamaullahi

SA Naqshi wrote:
Sunan dar qutni that "who makes the acusation that hadret ali raddi allahu ta3la anho is afdhal he will recieve 80 lashes of the whip"!

that is not in sunan of dar qutni. it is in ibn asakir but with six repoters that are unknown/majhul and the principal narrator hakim bin hajal NEVER met Ali bin Abi talib(alay salaam). according to usul al-hadith standards it is a fabrication!!

on the contrary, we find a hadith quoted by alahazrat in his fatwa that 'I(saw) will first intercede ahlul bayt.....and whoever I(saw) will intercede for first is afdhal'.

now, ask me where in fatawa ridawiyya is that hadith and i will provide the link here!